Craps Don't Pass Line Bet
4/1/2022 admin
The Don't Pass bet is the opposite of the Pass Line bet except rolling a 12 is a push (tie) and the bet is returned to the bettor. Don't Pass bets must be placed before the come-out roll is thrown. On the come-out roll, 7 or 11 loses, 2 or 3 wins, 12 is a push. Any other number becomes 'point' (marked with the ON puck). The don t pass/don t come works similar to the pass/come bet, however, you are betting the opposite way. On come-out, a don t pass / don t come loses if a 7 or 11 is thrown and wins if a 2 or 3 is rolled. If this bet were truly the opposite of the pass/come bet, the player would have an edge, so in order to tip the scales toward the house, the 12 appearing on come-out is a push no one wins or loses.
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- How to play craps video (part 4 of 5):: All you need to know about playing the don't side; SEP 1 Craps (version 2) - Part 3 of 5: Video for the new Craps tutorials, Sucker Bets. AUG 7 Vegas 2066: Fiction about a reclusive individual fifty years in the future and how the game of craps opens him up to the possibilities in the, 'Real world' JUL 29.
- How to play craps video (part 4 of 5):: All you need to know about playing the don't side; SEP 1 Craps (version 2) - Part 3 of 5: Video for the new Craps tutorials, Sucker Bets. AUG 7 Vegas 2066: Fiction about a reclusive individual fifty years in the future and how the game of craps opens him up to the possibilities in the, 'Real world' JUL 29.
Don't Pass Bet with 2 Don't Come Bets Plus a Field and Lay Bets on 4 and 10 As already mentioned above, all of these craps bet patterns correspond to the 3% rule never to make a bet that offers the casino a house edge larger than 3%. In other words, the closer the house edge gets to 3%, the less frequently should a player use such a pattern.
Ahigh
So I've made this point to many people in the casino, but I've never really brought it up in an online forum, so I figured now is as good of a time as any.
If you understand the game and every last detail about it, there's no compelling reason to bet the pass line over the don't pass line or vice versa.
HOWEVER
Most people don't understand the game all that well. Especially the psychological aspects of the game. And for this reason, I am going to make the argument that if you want to prevent yourself from busting out, the don't pass line is a better approach.
I think this matters less for folks with patience enough to only bet on one number at a time instead of betting the come bet and other bets. But I wanted to get a discussion going about the psychology of having a better chance of staying in the game if you bet the don't pass instead of the pass.
If you understand the game and every last detail about it, there's no compelling reason to bet the pass line over the don't pass line or vice versa.
HOWEVER
Most people don't understand the game all that well. Especially the psychological aspects of the game. And for this reason, I am going to make the argument that if you want to prevent yourself from busting out, the don't pass line is a better approach.
I think this matters less for folks with patience enough to only bet on one number at a time instead of betting the come bet and other bets. But I wanted to get a discussion going about the psychology of having a better chance of staying in the game if you bet the don't pass instead of the pass.
DeMango
I think that if a don't player would hit his point, the 7, he should not lose his turn. That rule change might turn this game around!When a rock is thrown into a pack of dogs, the one that yells the loudest is the one who got hit.
Ahigh
On a per-table basis, at $1,000,000 per year per table on AVERAGE, craps, as a game, beats every other table game except baccarat.
http://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=9031
I can't say that if every blackjack table were converted to a craps table if that would continue to be the case. Blackjack has a lot less overhead in terms of square footage, personnel, and training dealers to be able to operate the game without losing money due to errors.
Part of what I am saying is that casinos tend to get bigger bets by encouraging players to parlay their winnings, ESPECIALLY on the place bets.
I have begun to really pull back my comments and just watch, and I really see dealers having players press their place bets so much so that nobody has a chance to win with those terrible compound edges on the 4, 5, 9, and 10. But even avoiding those subjects, just taking bets that are unlikely to win (bet bigger and bigger odds expecting to get extra-ordinarily lucky) it seems to set people up to fail.
People worry too much about the bet amount and not enough about the chance to win, effectively, is what I am thinking. Or when they want a better chance to win, they add in one-roll bet to ensure that they will get paid on the 2, 3, 11, or 12 instead of laying odds on a don't.
http://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocument.aspx?documentid=9031
I can't say that if every blackjack table were converted to a craps table if that would continue to be the case. Blackjack has a lot less overhead in terms of square footage, personnel, and training dealers to be able to operate the game without losing money due to errors.
Part of what I am saying is that casinos tend to get bigger bets by encouraging players to parlay their winnings, ESPECIALLY on the place bets.
I have begun to really pull back my comments and just watch, and I really see dealers having players press their place bets so much so that nobody has a chance to win with those terrible compound edges on the 4, 5, 9, and 10. But even avoiding those subjects, just taking bets that are unlikely to win (bet bigger and bigger odds expecting to get extra-ordinarily lucky) it seems to set people up to fail.
People worry too much about the bet amount and not enough about the chance to win, effectively, is what I am thinking. Or when they want a better chance to win, they add in one-roll bet to ensure that they will get paid on the 2, 3, 11, or 12 instead of laying odds on a don't.
RS
One thing I don't like about the don't-pass is if you lose a couple bets, it's going to take more than the same amount of bets to win [at least when you lay odds].
On the other hand, with the pass line, you can get 5 PSO's in a row, have a shooter hit 2 points, and you're back to even (or just about). But with the don'ts.....if the shooter hits 2 or 3 points, it's going to take 5+ seven out's to recoup (even though the seven out is more likely than hitting the point).
I don't like that psychological part of the don't pass.
On the other hand, with the pass line, you can get 5 PSO's in a row, have a shooter hit 2 points, and you're back to even (or just about). But with the don'ts.....if the shooter hits 2 or 3 points, it's going to take 5+ seven out's to recoup (even though the seven out is more likely than hitting the point).
I don't like that psychological part of the don't pass.
odiousgambit
Things about the Darkside [I've listed these before]:I like
*that a player is less prone to demoralizing losing streaks
*how easy it is with 3x4x5x knowing what to put up for odds
*how the free odds are active bets all the time without having to say anything during the come-out
*having multiple DC bets rather than multiple Come bets up, for those times going for broke
but I don't like*giving up the dice as the shooter after a 7-out.
*the temptation to switch back and forth trying to guess which way to go; it is stronger, and deadly
*missing out on the fun playing it dark when a shooter makes several hands... and you take a big hit, but it's not just about the money but the fun too
*feeling a rookie dealer has to be watched carefully for errors
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
RS
*giving up the dice as the shooter after a 7-out.
I saw a guy shooting the dice from the dark-side for about 20 minutes the other day, just by himself (well, 2 others), but no action on the table really other than the line bets. He'd get 3-4 don't-come bets out there with some odds, hit the point, then rolled a 7 on the come out and won all his DC's. Then established a point, traveled 3-4 more DC's, hit the point, 7 on come-out to win all his DC's, rinse wash repeat.
I thought it was pretty cool, since usually when a don't-shooter wins his bets, he loses the dice. But this guy was shooting 7's and winning his DC's during the come out roll (but of course, losing his don't-pass). He wasn't some dice-controller or anything like that. Just hit the right numbers at the right times.
terapined
So I've made this point to many people in the casino, but I've never really brought it up in an online forum, so I figured now is as good of a time as any.
If you understand the game and every last detail about it, there's no compelling reason to bet the pass line over the don't pass line or vice versa.
HOWEVER
Most people don't understand the game all that well. Especially the psychological aspects of the game. And for this reason, I am going to make the argument that if you want to prevent yourself from busting out, the don't pass line is a better approach.
I think this matters less for folks with patience enough to only bet on one number at a time instead of betting the come bet and other bets. But I wanted to get a discussion going about the psychology of having a better chance of staying in the game if you bet the don't pass instead of the pass.
I never ever played craps untill I found the Wiz's odds site.
Once reading the odds site, I am strictly a dark sider and I really enjoy playing craps in Vegas.
Surprised how few craps players play the dark side.
I allways smile and really enjoy the company of other darksiders at a craps table but its actually somewhat rare.
Its all about the odds in my opinion playing any game in Vegas.
I also love throwing the dice. Its the only time I consider playing pass. Right now if not throwing the dice, strictly dark, if throwing, I find my self about half the time playing pass. Too me gambling is about fun and its fun to throw the dice.
'Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time' -Grateful Dead- 'Loser'
jkluv7
The DON'T is the funnest bet on the table.
If you feel youe just HAVE to join the 'fun' of the DO bettors, then Place the 6/8 and cheer with the rest !!
Here are some 'quotes' from this site with the numbers proving the DON't betting:
1 in 9 will 7out on the 2nd roll (11.11%)
Slightly more than 1 in 9 will 7out on the 3rd roll (11.7%)
That makes about 22.8%.
So out of 1 million shooters (random AND DIs) over 228,000 will 7out by the 3rd roll.
Slightly more than 1 in 10 will 7out on the 4th roll (10.5%)
So, about 33.3% will 7out by the 4th roll.
50% of all shooters will 7out by the 6th roll.
You should know that about 60% of all shooters never make one point before they 7 out.
It is the odds on favorite and should be expected.
of course over any 10 shooter orbit about 1 in 8 will have 6 or more in a row not hitting one point.
No wonder why I have seen many high rollers (the smart craps players - some say the only smart players)
laying the point. They win the most times and the most money.
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/10510-iron-cross-and-hedges/3/
Those that do not know the math or believe the math of what is expected by each shooter, mostly live by
their own superstitions or from unreliable facts from the memory of past events.
The 3rd roll by any shooter has the highest probability to 7out on. (relative column)
The second highest probability is the 2nd roll.
1 out of 3 shooters go out by their 4th roll
Half go out by their 6th roll
Craps Shooter Length of a Shooters Hand
rolls or more 1 in or less rolls relative 1 in
3 0.88888888888888 1.1 11.1111111111% 2 0.111111111 9.0
4 0.77211934156378 1.3 22.7880658436% 3 0.116769547 8.6
5 0.66735253772290 1.5 33.2647462277% 4 0.104766804 9.5
6 0.57612890882995 1.7 42.3871091170% 5 0.091223629 11.0
7 0.49721087042117 2.0 50.2789129579% 6 0.078918038 12.7
8 0.42904410662521 2.3 57.0955893375% 7 0.068166764 14.7
9 0.37019134854117 2.7 62.9808651459% 8 0.058852758 17.0
10 0.31939069865160 3.1 68.0609301348% 9 0.050800650 19.7
If you feel youe just HAVE to join the 'fun' of the DO bettors, then Place the 6/8 and cheer with the rest !!
Here are some 'quotes' from this site with the numbers proving the DON't betting:
1 in 9 will 7out on the 2nd roll (11.11%)
Slightly more than 1 in 9 will 7out on the 3rd roll (11.7%)
That makes about 22.8%.
So out of 1 million shooters (random AND DIs) over 228,000 will 7out by the 3rd roll.
Slightly more than 1 in 10 will 7out on the 4th roll (10.5%)
So, about 33.3% will 7out by the 4th roll.
50% of all shooters will 7out by the 6th roll.
You should know that about 60% of all shooters never make one point before they 7 out.
It is the odds on favorite and should be expected.
of course over any 10 shooter orbit about 1 in 8 will have 6 or more in a row not hitting one point.
No wonder why I have seen many high rollers (the smart craps players - some say the only smart players)
laying the point. They win the most times and the most money.
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/10510-iron-cross-and-hedges/3/
Those that do not know the math or believe the math of what is expected by each shooter, mostly live by
their own superstitions or from unreliable facts from the memory of past events.
The 3rd roll by any shooter has the highest probability to 7out on. (relative column)
The second highest probability is the 2nd roll.
1 out of 3 shooters go out by their 4th roll
Half go out by their 6th roll
Craps Shooter Length of a Shooters Hand
rolls or more 1 in or less rolls relative 1 in
3 0.88888888888888 1.1 11.1111111111% 2 0.111111111 9.0
4 0.77211934156378 1.3 22.7880658436% 3 0.116769547 8.6
5 0.66735253772290 1.5 33.2647462277% 4 0.104766804 9.5
6 0.57612890882995 1.7 42.3871091170% 5 0.091223629 11.0
7 0.49721087042117 2.0 50.2789129579% 6 0.078918038 12.7
8 0.42904410662521 2.3 57.0955893375% 7 0.068166764 14.7
9 0.37019134854117 2.7 62.9808651459% 8 0.058852758 17.0
10 0.31939069865160 3.1 68.0609301348% 9 0.050800650 19.7
odiousgambit
50% of all shooters will 7out by the 6th roll. [etc, etc]
You seem to be making a case for not paying even money on darkside lay bets. Oh, wait, they thought of that!
Don't Pass Bet
the next time Dame Fortune toys with your heart, your soul and your wallet, raise your glass and praise her thus: “Thanks for nothing, you cold-hearted, evil, damnable, nefarious, low-life, malicious monster from Hell!” She is, after all, stone deaf. ... Arnold Snyder
Don't Pass Line Bet
befamous7
Craps Don't Pass Line Bets
Ahigh, in another post you said 'I am there to be entertained' in regards to playing craps. I feel the exact same way.
There are a couple reasons why I usually avoid playing the don't.
1. My bankroll. It's too small to be laying odds if I'm not doing so hot from the start.
2.The entertainment factor. Honestly, it's just not fun playing the DP. I hate not being able to cheer with everyone when they win and everyone being happy when everyone else is upset when they lose. I'm usually playing with friends who don't understand the game like I do. I've played the DP while they have played the PL and it was pretty awkward to say the least.
Bottom line is the PL offers way more entertainment value to me.
There are a couple reasons why I usually avoid playing the don't.
1. My bankroll. It's too small to be laying odds if I'm not doing so hot from the start.
2.The entertainment factor. Honestly, it's just not fun playing the DP. I hate not being able to cheer with everyone when they win and everyone being happy when everyone else is upset when they lose. I'm usually playing with friends who don't understand the game like I do. I've played the DP while they have played the PL and it was pretty awkward to say the least.
Bottom line is the PL offers way more entertainment value to me.